RSSGun show loophole sees many weapons smuggled into Mexico
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YAKIMA, Wash. -- ATF agent Jessie Summers tried to deal with misconceptions before he talked about the illegal gun trade in Central Washington.
"We're not here to take anybody's guns," he told a group of city and law enforcement officials from across the state gathered at the Yakima Convention Center. "The image of us being jackbooted thugs doesn't hold water."
Not that Summers is worried so much about public image of federal agents. He and fellow ATF agent Steve Foreman said Thursday they were much more concerned about the so-called "gun show loophole" that allows unlicensed firearm dealers to circumvent background checks.
Two days before a gun show at Central Washington State Fair Park, Summers and Foreman warned that a large percentage of guns that are smuggled into Mexico come from gun shows in Eastern Washington.
According to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Washington state is the No. 4 source in the country for illegal guns in Mexico.
"Actually, it's just Eastern Washington," Foreman said. "When it comes to gun shows, this part of the state is wide open."
Foreman and Summers cited a recent case when rival drug cartels got into a shootout in Tijuana. Fifteen of the 60 firearms -- many of them semi-automatic assault rifles and high-powered pistols like the FN Herstal -- recovered were traced back to the Tri-Cities, they said.
While the U.S. has become a lucrative market for Mexican drugs, Mexico has become a lucrative market for American guns, the ATF agents said. A gun that retails for $1,000 here can sell for up to $4,000 south of the border.
Representatives from 27 cities across the state attended the daylong forum, which was organized by Seattle city officials and hosted by Yakima Mayor Dave Edler. The topics included Violent Crime & the Business Community (pharmacy robberies), gang crime, domestic violence, and the role of cities in addressing violent crime.
The ATF session on gun shows drew about 30 people, including Yakima County Prosecutor Jim Hagarty, County Sheriff Ken Irwin, Yakima City Councilwomen Kathy Coffey and Maureen Adkison and Yakima police Capt. Jeff Schneider.
The ATF agents made it clear that their beef is not with licensed firearm dealers, who are required to do background checks on buyers no matter where business is conducted, whether it's a storefront, a home or a gun show.
Instead, they complained of the so-called "gun show loophole" that allows unlicensed dealers to get around the government's background-check requirement by masquerading as "private collectors."
Summers, who is in charge of the ATF's Yakima field office, said a majority of dealers, legitimate or not, won't sell guns to sketchy characters, or someone who appears to be a gang member.
But a small percentage of unlicensed dealers have no such scruples, he said.
"It's cash and carry and then it's gone in the wind," Summers said of gun shows. "Ninety-nine percent are good sellers. It's those very few out there in it for a buck who's killing it for the rest of us."
Added Foreman, "He'll sell to anybody and everybody, trade up or trade down, he doesn't care ... It's actually a great business, if you don't get caught."
The ATF agents said they have to walk a fine line between policing gun shows and not appearing too aggressive, given the political climate around gun laws. They said they're often accused of harassment if they ask too many questions, and that Congress has held a tight rein on the agency.
Summers and Foreman acknowledged that requiring background checks at gun shows wouldn't end the illegal gun trade but said it would be a deterrent and help federal agents trace illegal sales more easily.
They also suggested that Washington should adopt California's law requiring a record of all private gun transfers and that an off-duty officer be stationed at gun shows. Last year, a man from Granger stole a pistol at a gun show at the Convention Center and fled on foot. He was arrested at a nearby 7-Eleven store.
Officials from across the state attended Thursday's crime forum at the Convention Center, including Vancouver City Manager Pat McDonnell and Spokane police Chief Anne Kirkpatrick. A number of local dignitaries were also on hand, including state Rep. Norm Johnson, R-Yakima, and Sen. Curtis King, R-Yakima.
In opening remarks, Edler noted Yakima's problems with gangs and guns, and alluded to his controversial membership in the national gun-control group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
"Boy, has that caused me some headache and grief," he said. "But I'm willing to take it if it's something that can help make my community safer."
Part of the goal for Edler and other city officials was to lay the groundwork for an organized lobbying effort in Olympia on violent crime.
The Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center commissioned a statewide survey in February to try and assess public views on gun laws.
Bob Scales, a senior analyst for the city of Seattle, said the survey found that 88 percent of the registered voters favored restrictions on gun show sales. In Yakima, support among voters was 68 percent.
Scales said support for restrictions on gun show sales was 65 percent, even among those who identified themselves as members of the National Rifle Association.
He said the survey should come as an eye-opener to lawmakers, whom he accused of failing to enact common-sense restrictions like background checks at gun shows out of deference to the NRA.
"In Olympia, except for mental health issues, they don't want to touch anything to do with firearms," he said.
* Chris Bristol can be reached at 509-577-7748 or cbristol@yakimaherald.com.
So how many of the smuggled firearms entering Mexico are actually coming from Central WA?
Report ViolationHow do the dealers identify "seedy" characters? Seems to me the ACLU would be all over that - especially if the dealer was me. I have seen all kinds of seedy characters at the shows, many being sold firearms.
I think the legitimate dealers would know who the phonies are and keep them out. Also, I was under the impression that dealer licenses would be checked for all entries. I wish I knew more about the process.
I find it hard to believe that OF ALL GUNS SOLD IN MEXICO that so many come from Eastern Washington. While 15 of 45 guns is quite a few in one place, it is a terribly small number of the whole. Also, many reportedly found are fully auto. Where are those coming from, since they are illegal here too? A collector may have one or two of those, but I would think any more would be highly suspect.
What??? you mean this isn't part of a free trade agreement------we supply them with guns and they supply us with gangbangers and drugs
Report Violation"They also suggested that Washington should adopt California's law" How absurd to suggest when California with all it's gun restrictions, according to the ATF, has more guns smuggled into the hands of Mexican cartels then washinton state. This is a backhanded approach to ban so called assault weapons in Washington state not just close the gun show loophole. If all of California laws are failing to stop guns from being smuggled into Mexico then more stricter guns laws must be passed in the logic of gun grabbers. How far are they going to go. Ignore SCOTUS rulings and apply guns laws like Washington DC on the whole nation.
www.aft.gov/press/2009press/063009dir-atf_melson-remarks.pdf
It's easier to add a new law than enforce the ones we have on the books. This was never a problem until the "Alien Invasion". We don't need more laws, we need enforcement and immigration enforcement would clear up a good share of our problem. The "Herald Repulsive" is now helping hide the problem by not giving the "Race" of criminals sought by the police. Why don't you stop giving the gender and age group. Hate to have any discrimination, age or gender based. While we are at it don't even report what they are wearing or how tall for that can be discriminating, The PC line will be, "The suspect was believed to be a human".
It's laughable how some in our country skirt the truth to look PC and culturally sensitive thinking we can't see its all to protect thier illegal enterprises, positions of power and do nothing jobs.
65% of NRA members support restrictions on gun shows? Now you know this analyst is lying about his research. NRA members know there is no such thing as a gun show loophole; a term created by the gun grabbers. The same laws apply to gun sales in gun shows as guns sold outside of gun shows.
The ATF agent says 99% fallow the laws but because of that 1% laws should be stricter like California. But California laws are not 100% in compliance since more guns are smuggled to Mexico then Washington state. Plus there is no reseach the ATF agent provided that Califonia's gunshow laws had an effect in reducing the amount of guns smuggled into Mexico. There is evidence that stricter gun laws in Washington DC increased the crime rate. Don't listen to this gun grabbers the people of Washington state because California's (5.6 per. 100000) stricter gun laws has double the murder rate then Washington state ( 2.6 per.100000) for 2008 from the FBI Uniform Crime Report.
This is very unbalanced reporting by Chris Bristol and the Editorial Staff of the Yakima Herald. This entire article is nothing more than repeating what government agents told him. Acting like a giant mouth piece for their anti-gun, anti-citizen, and treasonous rhetoric against the constitution.
There is no such thing as a "Gun Show Loophole"... that is progressive (i.e. Democratic/Socialist) speak for their desire to create new gun control legislation on private citizens who are not operating a commercial entity for profit.
Mexico seizes more than 29,000 firearms annually of that less than 24% (7,000) can be traced back to the U.S.
Maybe a better solution to Mexico's gun problem would be to stopping illegal aliens from entering the country and deporting the ones that are here. There's only about 10 Million or so of them.
A very good article that gets one to think. I am sure many come from central Washington. But where are they coming from to get here???? I am betting the the majority of the guns do not originate in central Washington! They are coming in from somewhere else. There has to be a network set up that many of the guns are stolen and then sent here to sell. Or many of these dealers are in their own racket. It looks to me like there may be a syndicate of well organized people that know the system better than the ATF !
Report ViolationA couple of things are being missed in this article.
Both, the US and Mexican, governments say that fully automicatic guns (ie M-4s), hand grenades and RPGs are recovered from the Mexican drug lords that "originated" from gun stores in the US (started in the Houston, TX area), which is a LIE!!! Last I checked, you cannot legally buy any explosive devices (hand grenades, RPG rockets) in ANY store since it is illegal for any civilian to own, possess, sell, transfer, or buy ANY of these. Fully automatic firearms can be obtained after a very painstaking background check and pay the appropriate "fees" to the US government, which by the time you get the fully auto, they will know who you are and who are your friends.
FACT: US government sells military weapons to Mexico
FACT: A lot of Mexican military, government and law enforcement officials are VERY CORRUPT people who will sell their own mother to make a buck.
FACT: It has been proven already that a lot of guns sold by the US government to the Mexican government end up in the hands of the drug cartels and other criminal gangs.
The funny thing is that there are also reports that in one state in Mexico, the police (federales) and the Mexican Army have been very close at shooting each other due to lack of communication between them when trying to enforce the law and make arrests. This speaks volumes on the possible corruption on both forces (police and army).
On another note, why is the US government paying zillions of dollars to "help" Mexico with their own internal problems? It is like us at this side of the border requesting Mexican federales and Army to help fight the drug problem we have here (created by Mexico's uncontrolled export of drugs) in our streets. They would not do it nor pay a penny to help us. The government should stop wasting money to solve other SOVEREIGN countries' problems and keep that money HERE,where WE NEED IT. Just seal the @#$% border!!!! How come we do not have such a problem with Canada? Because Canada does not have the level of corruption in their government, armed forces and law enforcement like Mexico does.
I wonder how many of the guns they claim were used in Mexico were bought at a gun show through the made up gun show loophole and how many are stolen.
It defies logic that semi auto guns are smuggled into Mexico from the USA when the drug cartels can get fully automatic firearms from the Mexican Army or Mexican police.
Typical biased lies.
Another reason I canceled my subscription.
By the way ask the survivors of Waco and Ruby Ridge if they think you are JBT.
I guess prohibition of drugs and guns doesn't work. Drugs come here, Guns go there where they are illegal.
And yes corruption on every level from here in the U.S. to the well known corrupt nation of Mexico. It is stupid to blame this group or that group. There are major players in on this huge market from every race and walk of life. Its all about money greed and power.
OK, have any of you heard of "supply and demand"...no i didn't think so, the U.S. has the highest demand for illegal drugs and the most money to pay for it, think about it...is it easier to kill a snake from the tail or to cut off the head? Yes Mexico has a problem, while they are killing each other there...the Americans are consuming the drugs here...so if the demand dies so does the production...with this said, you all really need to think twice before shifting blame. You all have a nice day!!!!
Report ViolationOne must asked, why are these ATF Agents talking about a so called Gun Show Loop Hole when in fact there is a greater threat out there!
Securing our borders to prevent Illegals from coming in and the shipping of drugs and guns across the border, problem solved
So there is nothing else that came out of this group, nothing concerning fighting gang problems, drugs and the crime rate here at home! So it appears our Mayor is more concerned with Mexico then our own home town.
Edler you joined this MAIG group with out approval from the City Council then when the NRA campaign stir the pot to came clean to the council about joining and then recommended the City Council to act upon this and approved with out a PUBLIC HEARING which is outside of the open meeting act, is it not! or no less in violation of State Laws.
RCW 42.30.060
Ordinances, rules, resolutions, regulations, etc., adopted at public meetings — Notice — Secret voting prohibited.
(1) No governing body of a public agency shall adopt any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, order, or directive, except in a meeting open to the public and then only at a meeting, the date of which is fixed by law or rule, or at a meeting of which notice has been given according to the provisions of this chapter. Any action taken at meetings failing to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be null and void.
RCW 42.30.075
Schedule of regular meetings — Publication in state register — Notice of change — "Regular" meetings defined.
State agencies which hold regular meetings shall file with the code reviser a schedule of the time and place of such meetings on or before January of each year for publication in the Washington state register. Notice of any change from such meeting schedule shall be published in the state register for distribution at least twenty days prior to the rescheduled meeting date.
Any action taken at meetings failing to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be null and void.
Edler and Council you need to get back to fighting the issues here at home instead of an agenda of the MAIG Group! that is just out to restrict legal gun ownership.
This editorials an obvious and shallow attempt to extend the propaganda from 6 months ago that told us that all the violence in Mexico is because of US guns. That was debunked quite thoroughly with the statistics on cross border criminology. The Mexicans return something like 17% of the guns that US law enforcement asks for in tracing. A -tiny- sample. Of that sample (which you could reasonably assume Mexican law enforcement has "fine tuned"...) a good portion have serial numbers obscured. Only a Brady group devotee could take that to mean that US gun migratory patterns cause Mexican drug violence.
Mexico's long standing problem with corruption is well known. That doesn't mean they're stupid enough to export drugs north so some mule can go to a show in Yakima and provide ANY significant number of guns to exporters going south. They are -mostly- selling drugs here for cash (easier to pack and carry then 2,000 ar15 rifles) that goes south and is then available to trade for full auto weapons at the back door of the local policia instead of the semi auto stuff traded at shows.
Ignore the propaganda, nothing to see here folks...
First the beginning of this article states CENTRAL WASHINGTON. Then it states EASTERN WASHINGTON. This ATF agent is spewing mud. The government will lie, cheat and steal as long as it gets the results/spin it wants. As stated above ...propaganda....
OMG, someone in eastern Washington knows about RCW's.
I think the real question would be, why aren't the immigration Dept officers working in conjoint with the ATF to check the identifications of people buying guns? I don't think the average US citizen is smuggling these guns............Also, why doesn't the ATF check the criminal hxs? I am sure a law-abiding citizen would allow a background check as a part of buying the guns, Not limiting the sales, just insuring that the guns do not fall into criminal hands or into hands of people who do not have a legal right to be at such an event due to lack of a green card..............
Report ViolationThere's only one solution: comprehensive immigration reform for guns.
Step 1: give all "undocumented" guns a pathway to legality.
Step 2: increase the number of guns we allow across the border.
We can't enforce our gun laws until we give amnesty to "undocumented" guns.
sjuan2
I finally read something you posted that made me smile instead of frown. Keep up the good work!
Electra,
I must be slipping. I'll try not to let it happen again.
Something dosent add up here.The ATF says Washington is the no. 4 largest seller of guns to Mexico and then turns around and says 99% of gun show dealers wont sell to unsavory characters.How can 1% of gun show dealers sell that many guns at these shows.I have been to some gun shows and I dont see a bunch of guns being sold by the truckload.Ive seen the odd pistol sold to people and thats about it.This story dosent jive with me.
Report ViolationDifranco - There are WAY more than 10 million. More like 35 million if you do the math - about 1.5 million per year average thru AZ alone. Then add CA, TX, NM, in the mix, all since the first amnesty in 1986 of what was supposed to be b3.6 million that turned into about 6.5 million instead.
Datruef and JBCA, you guys should have written this article. You are exactly correct, according to all I have seen.
I live down here on the borderland El Paso/Juarez and the attitude of those here is that they are going to take back the southwest that was stolen from them by the Americans.In this area it is 85% latino so it shouldnt be hard to do.
Report Violation This activity by our elected and civil service employees is disturbing and unacceptable.
The BATF employees described in this article are advocating a political position. This should not be allowed.
The elected officials mentioned here should be representing the opinions of their constituents. It looks like they are, instead, pushing forward their own agendas.
There is no such thing as a gun show loophole. Private parties are allowed to sell their guns to other private parties. The use of the term "loophole" is an attempt to paint this as a crime.
It appears that Mexico is having a problem. Let Mexico take care of the problem within their own borders. Do not use the problems within Mexico affect the rights of the citizens of the USA.
"We're not here to take anybody's guns," - so I must ask how they are going to stop the problem of illegal gun possession?
I must challenge the numbers also. 4th largest source? How can this be, only about 10% of the guns in Mexico even have serial numbers so they can not be traced - other than knowing they did NOT come from the legal US market. Or how about those items that were given to the Mexican Goovernment but corruption ensured they ended up in the hands of criminals?
This hit piece article was written to fit an agenda IMHO, only using a token number of the facts so it would support that agenda. If our Government was serious about prevent our freedoms from impacting Mexico, then we would have and enforce a border policy!
Sorry, the core of this is an attack on personal property rights and our freedoms to own firearms. Many of the items shown in our media as coming from US gun shows are NOT legal in the US. The phrase "unlicensed dealers" is another lie, to be a dealer one must have a license. Perhaps they need to update BATF regulations to clarify what a business is, that has been a problem since day one.
Licensed individuals volunteer to work with the BATF so why did the Clinton adminstration, with the support of WA Senators, attack all those who held FFLs but did not have a full time business? The answer is obvious, more attacks on gun owners IMHO.
Sorry, if the Feds and local law enforcement want support, they need to be FULLY honest with those who pay their salaries and enforce laws against known criminals FIRST. This article is an example how that is NOT happening.
Yes, many drug dealers are legal born citizens but from illegal aliens and also gang members of ms-13.
The yakima cops & sherriff office don't do much ,since yakima valley is a sancutary city/county for this behavior to continue like it has for last 12-15 years.
We need to enforce the laws period.
No more excuses, stop the denial.
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