Does anyone else remember there being comments on this article last night?

(This comment has been removed by a Yakima Herald-Republic moderator)

I think the Herald posts stories online at night and lets commenters do their editing for them. The first version of this report was roundly criticized (for good reason), so they made some changes and reposted it this morning. If this is the case, I think it's a good thing.

Charity, I guess not because then they also deleted my post which commented on every "fact" you posted yesterday. Since I'm at work now, so I'll post the links that debunk many of your "facts."

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

Suggestion: In order for people to know specifically what it is you are talking about when talking about legislation:

Refer to proposed legislation by its bill number, for example "S. 9999" (for Senate) or "H.R. 9999" (for House of Representatives) so other people can find the actual bill you are talking about on a reputable site, like the Library of Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov/

Refer to specific parts of the bill by their section and paragraph numbers. References to "page 99" are meaningless.

Charity, you put a lot of time into your comment. But unfortunately, it was a collosal waste of time.

Martha,
Anyone who has paid attention to this issue knows that Charity was referring to HR 3200. Please try not to dumb down this discussion.

Good grief. Would rather read all 5 options being discussed in congress than this one post of Charity's. Interpretation/semantics seems to be the game-along with distortion/propoganda.

Ironic how when someone questions certain people, suddenly they are liberal. Like I have said before, stereotyping sure is a time saver.

How embarrassing for the pro-socialized medicine crowd. They were outnumbered at their own rally by opponents of Obamacare, even after the Herald advertised the event:

"County Democrats to host health care rally Monday"

http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/08/27/county-democrats-to-host-health-care-rally-monday

HR 3200, can be located at
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf
Thee is a Senate Bill that Senate Finance HELP has but its not been made public and CBO scored it at a cost of 1.6 Trillion over 10 years.
Yes,the reason bigger turnout against government run Health Care is because over 70% and rising don't want it.
Its too bad our Senators don't get it. Our local Senator Murray didn't even had enough good sense to have her office open for consitutuents.(She is still M.I.A.)
The reason the tide has changed on government RUN Health Care, the truth is coming out, Facts change peoples minds, not spin.

Martha has a point- my copy of the bill does not have page numbers on it, so it is often hard to find the exact place people are referencing with their page number reference.

Kirk's link didn't work for me for some reason, this is the copy I've been referencing: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

wsu, the factcheck.org doesn't debunk anything I said. It says pretty much that the government will have the power, but not use it? That private panels that are overseen by the government are not government controlled? That illegal aliens will be denied healthcare? These are the same lies that Obama is saying, but people aren't that stupid. No matter how you put it, government will have total control of healthcare! I urge people to read factcheck.org! It's obviously paid for by the Obama adminstration!

So if someone calls you out for posting a list of misinformation that has been posted all over the internet and debunked by a well known fact checking site, you respond that the Obama administration must pay for it?

If you actually take five minutes to LOOK at the site, you will see that it actually takes on both sides of the aisle, and has fact checked both Democrats and Republicans- and found that both sides tell their fair share of lies.

Clearly, the facts must have a liberal bias...

I have been reading the site all morning! I'm glad you pointed it out. It only confirms what I have been saying! I like it when they say "private-public advisory commitees appointed by the government and the president" are not government controlled! That's funny! Who do they answer to? Or when they say these are only recommendations! What if you don't agree? Will they say "you don't have to do what we say."? Then why are they there? Debunked. That's funny!!!!

So how does anyone ever decide what is covered by a health insurance plan NOW? Some magical being in the sky? Executives? The homeless man down the street? A group of people (experts even?) a company might hire (appoint?) to work it all out?

I should just stop bothering... I guess when you want to find a monster under your bed, all of your shoes suddenly look like they have eight heads and a thousand teeth.

The left wants to force health insurance companies to accept new customers with preexisting conditions.

Isn't that like buying car insurance after getting in a wreck? It's asinine government intervention like this that drives up the cost of premiums. This is how the government gradually takes over an industry. They impose regulations that artificially drive up costs, then accuse the industry of price gouging and being greedy. They demonize the private sector so that people will go along with a government takeover. Once they control it, there's no going back.

It's decided by non-government controlled private insurance companies in a FREE market! That's the whole point! That's why out healthcare system is the best in the world!

It's awfully easy to be the best healthcare system in the world!!! when you don't have to take care of sick people.

Wsu, do you know who was the first chairman of the board in the Chicago Annenberg challenge? The same Annenberg of factcheck.org? He served on the board with terrorists William ayers? Yes, the one and only Barack Obama!!

Martha, come on, nobody is turned away turned away from emergency care in this Country! That's illegal!

Martha is an immigration attorney who defends illegal aliens. She wants us to pay for health insurance for illegal aliens. When liberals throw around the 47 million uninsured Americans statistic, they don't tell you that they're counting millions of illegal immigrants.

Charity, if I understand you correctly, we have the best healthcare system in the world because it's illegal to turn anybody away from emergency care. So, we have the best healthcare system in the world because of the government.

"That's why out healthcare system is the best in the world!"

I almost laughed at this statment but its too sad. I work in a healthcare setting dealing with the uninsured and I cant begin to tell you the horror stories.

So much misinformation floating around its sickening.

I didn't say that that is why it's the best, I was only pointing out that people aren't denied emergency care. It's the best because of the free market!! There is incentive to make it better! Take that incentive away and it will get worse!

Foryourinfo, if it's not the best, where is the best??????

There are 3.5 million homeless people in America. Do you think that the tax payers should build them houses? Why should we pay for insurance die people that don't have it? Especially when they are when they are not denied emergency care!

And to say that it will bring costs down? That is like saying if we buy everyone's groceries, then we'd save money on food stamps!

According to some sites: France

US ranks 37 out of 190


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm

charity,

maybe we should let them starve and die of disease and malnutrition and what not. Is that a better solution for you.

Here is a good article that debunks many of the misleading statistics that the left uses to convince people that the U.S. healthcare system sucks.

http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/06/23/health-care-myths/

No, the best sollution for me is to bring costs down so more can afford it. Through tort reform, tax incentives, allowing people to buy across state lines, healthcare savings accounts, private coops, etc..... None of which is in this bill!

I can't believe the tactics that the left uses. People dying from disease and malnutrition? Where do you live? It's definately not America!

Ok maybe I should have said one of the best. Same point!

Okay...I cannot find my posts now. Is it because I agree with Charity? This is certainly NOT allowing me my Constitutional freedoms, YHR. I thought that we still had those rights?

My last post concerned the website to READ THE BILL: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Please be informed...read the bill...use your own mind - not some website or someone else's opinions.

Where was the individual signs at Dems Rally?
Where is Senator Murray?
Where is her staff?
Why does she have a office in yakima, the door never open.
Just something to think about, tax payers dollars wasted for rent when economy down.

homeschool mama, I thought they were deleting posts also, bit there are 2 different articles. They decided to revise the number of people at our rally to around 80. I guess it was 88 that sgned in. All posts are still on the other one.

There are 46 million out of 307 million uninsured in America. 10 million are illegal aliens and 31 million who make over 300% of the poverty level and can afford it, but choose not to get it. That leaves 5 million people that are working or not working who either employer don't provide it or can't afford it. Why don't we just focus on those 5 million and leave the rest of us alone?

Even if you paid $10,000 per policy, that's only $50 billion. Why are we gonna waste double that per year on taking over all?

Not that that's what we should do, I was just pointing out the waste.

I guess the one with the most posts win. Maybe you should run for office since you know so much better than anyone else. Way too simplistic on those solutions but give you kudos for trying. Big business, big lobbies, little people getting ripped off with growing costs.

I guess health insurance is only for those with good jobs or high incomes. The only problem with that is even with insurance or a good job, we all pay for those who have no insurance by higher costs for healthcare.

Also, is it right that we pay so much more for our rxs than other countries? They are raking in their profits off of us but I guess that is ok with everyone?

I agree that the system isn't perfect and that the uninsured are contributing to higher costs, but how is it saving money by everyone else paying for their insurance? That's like my food stamp quote from earlier. Whave slot of great ideas that would bring costs down without destroying the system but the administration and the dems in congress are not listening!

Insurance is not just for people with high incomes and good jobs. I am a self employed truck driver who doesn't make slit of money and I have it. Not because I can afford it but because I make it a priority. I have seven kids and a wife who homeschools. I could definately use the money elsewhere!

Politics? That's a thought!

Thanks, Charity, for sharing that there is another article - with our comments... :) After I read the re-vamped article, I realized that this was a different link. I apologize to YHR for assuming they deleted my comments.

Back on task:

This bill is going to put a lot of people out of work. Has anyone thought of that? The private healthcare industry won't be able to afford to pay their employees at the "living wage" and will be forced to eliminate many jobs. We are self employed farmers, and we will not be able to survive this bill, but we've touched on that before.

Plain and simple: we all want similar things, but this bill IS NOT the way! It is far too restricting with regard to our constitutional freedoms...there is far too much spending...HR 3200 IS NOT THE ANSWER!

I still vote for INSURANCE CO-OPS OWNED BY THE PEOPLE!

Obama may be willing to drop the public option. As long as they don't put in government run coops we're making progress. Now if we could at tort reform and tax incentives we may have a compromise! For me, they need to take out alot of government mandates on private insurance companies and doctors fees and wages also. This along some real free market incentives in this bill and I think it would pass.

They're finally listening!

oddthomasfan
I think prescriptions costs to much, the you won't like the reason why they cost more than needed!
The financial backing of some senators, like Senator Murray and Cantwell, ads on tv that running right now.
This is just something to think about!

I think Yakima Herald reporter Leah Beth Ward wrote a fair but balanced story of monday's Rally.
I may not always agree with everything that written but it's ok, thank god we live in America,still the best place to be right now.

If you value your constitutional rights, you need to read this!

www.freedomtorch.com/2619/blog/297/

I think the misconception is that just because we don't support the healthcare bill that is proposed, that we don't care about people without health insurance. That is totally false. I care alot about people and I love to see people succeed! To help your neighbor is about as American as it gets, but this bill will hurt all and help very few! Does that make sense?

We can come up with a plan that will help those in need if we put our politics aside and do what's best for out nation and the people in it! This administration and the liberals in congress have forgotten this principle and are only doing what is best for them and not the nation! Republicans and Democrats in Washington have let partisonship become more important than principles! It's time we the people took out country back and come together for the same purpose! To make this nation the best it can be! This is why I'm so interested in politics. Not because I have anything to gain, but because we have so much to lose!!!!

"Does that make sense?"

YES!

"We can come up with a plan that will help those in need if we put our politics aside and do what's best for out nation and the people in it!"

YES! YES! YES!

Well said, Charity...